S1: E1: Wait, what? Is something going on beyond the binary?
Hey, Cis! It's a weekly shakedown of the binary walls around us.
Isaac Cook:Breaking it out and building a bridge.
Cyn Sweeney:Checking our biases with empathy and humility and questioning the status quo.
Isaac Cook:Still building allyship that's intentional and confident.
Cyn Sweeney:Hi. Hi. My name is Cynthia.
Isaac Cook:And my name is Isaac.
Cyn Sweeney:And we're super excited to be coming to you with Hey Cis!, a weekly podcast.
Isaac Cook:So, yeah, so my name is Isaac, and I use he, they pronouns. I'm a nonbinary trans person, and I've been openly trans for about what is it? It's 2020. So about ten eight to ten years. Yeah.
Isaac Cook:So it's been a while.
Cyn Sweeney:Although with the amount of time it's taken us to get through 2020 so far, it's, like, more like eighteen years.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's added about ten years on top of that, it seems to be. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:I'm Cynthia. I use she, her pronouns, and I am a cisgender parent of a trans child. So our little one transitioned in elementary school, and they were their school's first openly trans student, but no doubt likely not first trans student within the school. And I've been advocating for them ever since they've come out and just trying to figure out why they've been erased through their whole childhood in school and all around us and how very little I knew about trans and nonbinary people before I realized I had a child who is one.
Isaac Cook:So Yeah. Yeah. So I'm sure your kind of conception of what transgender meant kinda changed as soon as you had your child. Correct? Like, as your child when your child came out, or were you
Cyn Sweeney:Oh, transformative. Yeah. Like, totally for a pun on the word. I I just I had no idea what trans meant.
Isaac Cook:Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:But my kiddo, when he got the language to be able to identify the stuff that he'd been grappling with inside him, he knew exactly all the language and and what it meant and was a real educational piece for us. So as parents, for me, it was a huge learning curve, and I'm just grateful I was able to take the time to listen to what they were telling me.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And I think I think the biggest kind of like one eighty comparison to that too is that the younger trans generation that is now coming up, like when I was younger, it wasn't, you know, twenty, thirty years ago. But the Internet was still relatively quiet when I was, you know, 14, 15. And, you know, the time since then, you can find everything online. Like, I first I'm trying to remember.
Isaac Cook:I first found out I was trans because I was in a hospital program, and there was someone there who was also identified as trans. I was like, I now have a name to this, like, feeling that I've been feeling for so long because I had felt trans for, you know, four or five years before that. But then I finally once you find that name to attach to it, it's like everything starts lining up and you know where to go and you can find those resources. So I think, you know, the the term transgender is eye opening for so many individuals, but I think the definition of what transgender is is something that skewed often. So because I I find Yep.
Isaac Cook:The term transgender really depends on the individual. Like, it has an over encompassing, like, this is what transgender means, but Mhmm. You know, it's very personal.
Cyn Sweeney:So, yeah, Isaac, I can I can totally hear what you're saying, and I can imagine before you had a name to put to what being trans is, it must have been kinda scary, like, those feelings that were going on inside you? Maybe you can just talk a little bit about what being trans means to you, and what was it like when you finally had a a word to explain those feelings.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. No. It definitely like, kind of as I mentioned, it was very eye opening because once you find a word because, you know, living your life as a cis female for so long and you're like, okay. Is this me? Is this I was going through a lot of mental health episodes, which subsequently was part of being not being able to find that right word, but, you know, like anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, like substance abuse, like things like that.
Isaac Cook:And then once I found this word, it was just like, you know, the clouds opened up. Like, it was like a whole new, like, whole new day. And I think and I think that's probably one of the biggest things too is that a lot of people don't realize that, like, just having a word for something that you're feeling helps validate that so incredibly much. And so, yeah, so, like, trans to me simply means that, like, you no longer identify or you identify as something other than what you were given at birth. Would that equal to, like, your understanding of trans?
Isaac Cook:Or
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. I think I've always I thought of it as an umbrella term Mhmm. For somebody whose gender identity doesn't align with their sex as a sign of birth. Mhmm. And that's a very clinical way of of putting it.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. But, actually, when we should clarify, this helps to to clarify for everybody out there what cisgender means as well. So better question. Yeah. Exactly.
Cyn Sweeney:You might be going, Hey, Cis! What is this? I'm like, I'm not your sister. I'm probably old enough to be your mother. But but cisgender is very cool, the Latin term.
Cyn Sweeney:So cis is on the same side as. So cisgender is for anyone out there whose sex as a sign of birth simply aligns with how you feel about yourself.
Isaac Cook:Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:So your gender identity on the inside. So, yeah, so trans for some people, it can be not aligning with your sex assigned at birth and kind of going completely the opposite way. Right? It can be very kind of definitive. I was assigned female at birth, and, no, I identify as a male.
Cyn Sweeney:But for others out there, you can lie somewhere in between. Is that right? And feel Yeah. Not quite female, not quite male, and sort of gender fluid.
Isaac Cook:Mhmm. Yeah. No. I think I think that's a really good explanation. Because I think I think so often with, like, the term transgender, we get so muddled with the difference between, like, gender and sex.
Isaac Cook:And that, like, when you think of the word transgender, a lot of people thinks it means, like, trans you know, I'm I'm not a huge fan of this term, but if it's used medically, like, transsexual, like, where you kind of one eighty your, like, sex assignment kind of thing, which is so not the case whatsoever. Like, for instance, like, break it down a little bit more. Like, gender is what you feel, and then sex is what you biologically are. So, you know, a lot of times it can be based on hormones or reproductive organs, etcetera. Sex is definitely a more medical term.
Isaac Cook:Typically uses, you know, male, female, or intersex, and there are there are other also are other options as well. Hormones are not black and white in shape or form. So
Cyn Sweeney:No. It's complex. It's totally I love Oprah Winfrey with Janet Mock, a trans activist and model of US. In one of their Oprah's Soulful Sundays, having a conversation with Janet Mock, it was said that sex is who you go to bed with at night. Gender identity is who you go to bed as.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Right? Yeah. And how you see yourself in your dreams and and and who is your most innermost sense of self. You know?
Cyn Sweeney:Isn't it?
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And, like, gender, like, at least for me, I always see it broken down into, like, gender identity and gender expression. So gender identity is kind of how you feel about yourself, and then gender expression is how you show yourself to the world kind of thing. So some individuals like Mhmm. Like for myself, for instance, I'm a non binary person, that's how I identify.
Isaac Cook:But when I dress up in the morning, I try to dress myself as masculine as possible because of the fear of being misgendered or being skewed to be a woman. Mind you, I have facial hair and everything. In a societal norm, most people would be like, nah. You're, you know, a man.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Yeah.
Isaac Cook:But that's how I choose to portray myself socially in order to align with, you know, my social my gender identity. Other people, you know, they might identify as something else, but represent themselves socially in a different way.
Cyn Sweeney:So that's a really good point because gender expression and then gender identity. I hear this so often. People get really confused if they see someone who is, say, presenting butch or presenting, you know, more masculine. So if a, say, a person who identifies as a man wears nail polish and wants to wear makeup, does that mean that they're transgender?
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Exactly.
Cyn Sweeney:And the answer is no. Right. It's not. That's so your gender expression is just basically how you present yourself to the world, and it can change, right, all the time. And
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And that being said, you know, you can identify as a cis man or a cis woman, and that doesn't mean you, you know, your gender expression has to be feminine or masculine or neuter or whatever have you. You know, you can identify as a cis woman and, you know, your gender expression is also, like, feminine, but you can, you know, be more masculine. Like, women are allowed to do masculine things.
Cyn Sweeney:So, Isaac, can you personal question then. Yes. So you use hey they and them pronouns, and you use he, him pronouns. So if you had a preference and you wanted to people people to address you as one particular, would you prefer they, them, or does it really not matter to you?
Isaac Cook:It honestly doesn't matter to me. Like, I'm a very I don't know. Like, I've I've I know a couple other people who, like, they just use they say he, they, but they prefer they. But for me, for instance, like, I don't really care. It's literally just like anything but she, her at this Okay.
Isaac Cook:That's kind of like my outlook for it. Like, there's also, like, neo pronouns which aren't like the traditional, like, he, they, she kind of thing. And if you wanna call me those, that's fine. But, like, me.
Cyn Sweeney:Right. I know. And I hear new pronouns all the time. I see them in writing depending on what country you're in and that too, and I wouldn't necessarily know. But I think for me, if I don't know, I just tend to go with they them and just keep it gen neutral or use the person's name or or ask.
Cyn Sweeney:I mean, I always try to encourage people, like, you can ask without being offensive.
Isaac Cook:If you're
Cyn Sweeney:asking intentionally Mhmm. Only this past weekend, we bumped into someone who my kids were hanging out with a friend, and a neighbor wasn't sure of their gender or and they thought their name was a masculine name. Mhmm. And and it was actually a feminine name Yeah. In this instant.
Cyn Sweeney:And, you know, we had to kinda have the conversation like, oh, no. Well, you know what? Names can be for for anybody. And nowadays, you know, you see lots of names that are used female, also use masculine and crossing over. So I always just think when in doubt, say, hey.
Cyn Sweeney:I just don't wanna get it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Me out here.
Isaac Cook:What are your pronouns kind of thing? Like, I I think that's something that we need to start integrating into, like, our greetings to individuals and especially in, like, professional environments too.
Cyn Sweeney:Like Mhmm.
Isaac Cook:Other can of worms. But, like, on that topic, it's really funny because my parents, for instance, they both have gender neutral names. So people would call and they'd be like, can I speak to miss mister such and such? Like and I'm like, yeah. Here he is.
Isaac Cook:Like and they're like, ah, there you go. Mhmm. But, yeah, so many people base names off of, like, what their genderification, I would say, is, like, based off of, you know, like, Mike is a man name and Sarah is a girl name kind
Cyn Sweeney:of thing. Gendered. Yeah. And we were like, wait a minute now. You're wearing pink pink.
Cyn Sweeney:I still remember this is why I'm saying this. My it was my niece when she was, like, three, hadn't started school yet. And so her socialization had pretty much come from the home and TV Mhmm. You know, certain stores where she goes through with her parents. And she's in a McDonald's, and she pointed out to a guy who's wearing a pink T shirt and was like, daddy, horrified.
Cyn Sweeney:He's wearing a pink shirt. Pink for girls.
Isaac Cook:Where did you learn this?
Cyn Sweeney:And it's like, oh, I'm, not my niece. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see. It's like we're ingraining in kids, which I think is why it's so hard for for young trans and, say, gender creative kids to kinda find that language unless teachers and that are helping to support them Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:From a really early age. Right?
Isaac Cook:Because And, yeah, and I think I think that's really important, like, in speaking of, like, kind of, like, school because that's that's one of the other spaces where they feel most comfortable and confident, and that's where they're doing a lot of their socialization because that's where they're at, like, eight hours a day, potentially.
Cyn Sweeney:Mhmm.
Isaac Cook:So we definitely need more teachers and advocates for, you know, trans people or gender diverse communities to kind of, like, speak out and be more aware of these things and aware of, like, what curriculum they're I would I would use the term enforcing kind of on youth because a lot of times, you know, some of it is very, you know, cis centric and it's focused on, you know, girls over here, guys over there.
Cyn Sweeney:Yes. Our kid first came out as trans, I, you know, I think it was you know, I probably equated a lot to cross dressing. You know, I had seen Priscilla Queen of the Desert, And, you know, I grew up in Ontario, and it was at the time, it was a small town. Gosh. It's Brampton.
Cyn Sweeney:It's not small by any means now. And I did a lot of traveling. And by the time I landed out here in Nova Scotia, like, I still hadn't met anybody who was openly trans as far as I had known. I, you know, I've seen drag shows and and that, but to me, that was always the idea of it was, you know, men dressing up as women for performance.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And it was all performative. Like, as soon as, like, that night was over, you take everything off, and you're like a man again or a woman again
Cyn Sweeney:kind thing. And I don't know. I can't speak for other members of my generation, but I do feel like I know from having spoken to other people my age, you know, mostly those who knew my child before they transitioned and having to explain, you know, they were really uncomfortable with it and didn't understand at all that gender identity comes from messages in your brain as well. So I know, like, I was I was in the dark, but I'm not alone.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Yeah. I think I think especially, you know, I'm not a parent, but I can I can empathize with, like, kind of what my parents experienced because growing up, I guess, I was I was very much kind of in that limbo stage of, like, I very clearly did not want feminized, like, things to some degree that putting a dress on me was, like, a complete disaster kinda thing? But I was like a kid at the And I think and I think I mean, I'm not in any shape or form saying that, you know, if you're a female identifying child not wanting to wear dresses that, oh, that suddenly means they're trans. But I think there's a lot of kind of, like, key things that you can see in a child's history from since birth that, you know, might kind of lean them towards, like, okay.
Isaac Cook:They're starting to, you know, not be comfortable around the binary. Like, is there something going on that's deeper that I can't really get out of them or they don't know the proper words how to describe how they're feeling. And I think I think that's why we're seeing so many trans youth come out, and it's not because trans is on the rise. It's because trans kids now have all the language and the words that they need to describe how they feel and that we're giving kids the agency that they can be like, I don't wanna do this. Like, I have the opportunity to set boundaries and say no.
Isaac Cook:And that was something that, you know, a little bit in my generation, but definitely many generations before of trans youth had to go through a lot of this, you know, not being able to transition until they were, know, in their thirties or forties and done their career.
Cyn Sweeney:And that's what causes so many of those those, like, mental health challenges, like you're saying, you know, and why trans was such was so pathologized. Traditionally, because when you're not seen or you're not represented and you're feeling this particular way, but nobody's validating that Mhmm. Of course, you're gonna feel sadness, and and you're gonna feel stressed. Mhmm. Because you're gonna start to think, oh, there's something wrong with me
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Which can lead to depression and, you know, spiking levels of anxiety and that. But, like, as we said, through, like, the American Association of Pediatrics and even the Trans Health here in at the IWK in Halifax, once, you know, once a child, a trans youth is recognizes the language and they're supported
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:They're those statistics drop from, say I I can't think off the hand. I was like 70% Yeah. You know, have suicidal thoughts, and that drops right back down to three percent
Isaac Cook:Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:Aligned with any cisgender child growing up in a family when they're supported and they have that language. Yeah. So it's really important to note that it's not a pathology, and often the anxiety, the depression are not they're more the symptoms of not being heard. Yeah. And they don't make somebody trans.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Do you know? And that that, I think, is a big misconception. It's like, oh, let's treat the depression, and you're not gonna be trans anymore.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Like, people have this idea that, like, being trans or especially, like, identifying as trans as youth, especially those younger than, you know, 15 or puberty stages, like, oh, it's just a phase. Like, they're just in their, like, experimenting phase kinda thing. And I'm like, yeah. Like, sure.
Isaac Cook:It could be a phase, but a lot of times, maybe they are genuinely trans. Like, what is what harm will it do if you allow your child to explore their gender? Right? Like, you're giving them the opportunity and the agency to explore themselves and to give them the ability to, you know, start making those building blocks to to figure out who they want to be at a young age. There's absolutely nothing wrong with, like, you know, have a son letting them go out and buy a dress and wear it, see how they feel, or letting them experiment with makeup, or if you have a girl, you know, taking her out to buy boy clothes.
Isaac Cook:I remember when I was a kid, I used to buy boy boy clothes just because it was more comfy and had nothing to do with, you know, gender or anything like that. I mean, maybe it did now that I'm looking back at it. But, you know, there's there was absolutely no harm in doing that. So I I think a lot of parents, you know, are like, oh, I have to, like, protect my child. Like, you know, if my child is going through these phases, like, I don't want them to get, like, sucked into this, like, trans propaganda.
Isaac Cook:But in reality, you're doing quite opposite. You're not protecting them. You're, you know Giving them space.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Freedom.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. You need to give them the freedom to do it.
Cyn Sweeney:That's such a good point because, like, a phase is traditionally defined as lasting about a period of eight months. Mhmm. When someone goes through a particular phase, generally, it's about eight months long, and I was totally in that situation. I remember sitting across from our guidance counselor, and they're explaining to me what what transgender means and and how so my child coming home and saying, you know, mom, I'm not a girl. I'm actually a boy, and I'm in a girl's body, which is the language they had used.
Cyn Sweeney:And so I was talking to the guidance counselor, and I was trying to make sense of this. And and I was I remember I kept asking, well, what if they changed their mind?
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:What if like, what if what if I go along with this? What if I support them? But what if they change their mind? And the guidance counselor just looked at me and was like, what if they do? Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And I just thought I had to step back, and I thought, what if they do? And what harm is it? And that it that was it. It really put it into perspective that really, so what if they do? I've given my child that opportunity to explore who they are and know that you know, I took away that fear of rejection.
Isaac Cook:Think that's the biggest thing Right. Is that when you lay, you know, the building blocks there that you can identify identify as this or you can dress like this, you're you're telling your child automatically that you're a safe space, that in the future, you know, they're gonna come to you if they have issues regarding relationships, like other people, like gender not gender related things. You're telling them that you're a safe space and you're allowing you're giving them the freedom to do what they want and you trust their instincts and you trust their decisions. I think that's that's probably the biggest thing that, you know, parents of gender diverse kids seem to struggle with is that, like, what if it's a phase? But it's exactly as you said, like, what if it's a phase?
Isaac Cook:Like
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. But now there's a lot of trolls online. And, like and sometimes, like, when you're, you know, you're educating and then you get that pushback of somebody going, yeah. But, you know, when I was little, I I wanted to be a frog, but I can't be a frog when I grow up. So should we be humoring our kids about you know?
Cyn Sweeney:And I find that really frustrating, but, like, what would you what what do you say to that? Like, what do you Yeah. You know?
Isaac Cook:I mean, like, I don't know. Like, whenever people make those kinda, like, trolling comments, like, oh, like, attack helicopter or whatever, like, those driving up the wall. But I'm like, yeah. Like, who is it hurting? Like, genuinely, who is it hurting?
Isaac Cook:Like, what child my my partner and I were actually joking about this a little bit ago, but, like, what child hasn't gone out in the woods as a child and, like, pretended to be like a wolf or a horse or like a cat
Cyn Sweeney:or something?
Isaac Cook:Like, who hasn't done that? Or, like, you know, it gets to a point, like, if your child is starting to their they're exploration. Yeah. And they're starting to get a little, you know, too into it that you're like, okay. You know?
Isaac Cook:You know?
Cyn Sweeney:You have to walk to
Isaac Cook:the store to the store today. We have to do these things. But, you know, so many pediatric, like, doctors will tell you that, like, those are a lot of those things are clearly phases because they eventually, you know, in that eight month period, they they might extend for a little bit longer. But after eight months, it'll go away. Mhmm.
Isaac Cook:So what's harming your child identifying as a frog? If they wanna identify as a frog, cool. Awesome. If that makes them happy, like, what why should you tell them, like, hey. Don't do this.
Isaac Cook:Right?
Cyn Sweeney:Well, you know, what's really beautiful is my little one who is trans, my youngest of three, actually, when they were younger, had said, I really wanna be a butterfly when I grow up. Well, that's true. I remember them kneeling inside our open dishwasher while they were bouncing up and down and telling me this. I wanna be a butterfly when I grow up. And in essence, they kind of did.
Cyn Sweeney:You know? Well, aren't all children. They kind of just transform and bloom as they grow. But for me, metaphorically, I look back and I think, you know what? You are a butterfly.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Like, you are. You know? You're amazing, and you did. You went through your and were able to, like, you know, stay true to who you are, and and they're so much happier.
Cyn Sweeney:Right? At the end of the day, I think we just want all of we want our kids to be happy. Yeah. And everybody deserves to be able to live authentically Yeah. And and a happy life.
Cyn Sweeney:Right? Yeah. So
Isaac Cook:Yeah. No. Exactly.
Cyn Sweeney:Mhmm.
Isaac Cook:And I I think something else we should dive into here just is the differences of transition just kind of even on topic of, like, a butterfly and, like, going through that chrysalis phase. Oh, dear. I this is kind of my opinion on it, and everyone in the universe is gonna have different opinions on what different types of transitioning there is. But I say it's kind of broken down into two categories is that there's a social transition and then there's there can be a medical transition. And neither of those are necessary to be trans, in my opinion.
Isaac Cook:I don't think you need to socially transition. I don't think you need to medically transition. I don't think you need to tell anyone if you wanna be trans. You can be trans. You can identify as trans.
Isaac Cook:That's totally fine. But if you do socially transition, that kind of encompasses if you start going by, like, new names, start using new pronouns, you change your appearance or alter your appearance somehow. Yeah. Haircut, clothing, makeup, etcetera. While a medical transition is through looking to do, like, hormone replacement therapy, also known as HRT, sex reassignment surgery, which is called SRS, and those more kind of not necessarily concrete things, but where you have to start getting medical interventions to change your physical appearance and stuff like that.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. So that there's a lot of, you know, controversy even within the trans community that, you know, you have to medically transition or you have to have dysphoria to be trans or you have to, you know, this and that. But I think it as we kind of just said, it breaks down to what's gonna make the individual most happy. You know? You don't have to go and a lot of people can't get medical transition, like, don't have access to that.
Isaac Cook:I have a friend who is trans man, but has a lot of, you know, underlining medical issues, and they can't get top surgery because that could be life or death for them. So they can't access those things, and a lot of people don't realize that. And that doesn't make them not trans.
Cyn Sweeney:It doesn't make them any less trans.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Exactly.
Cyn Sweeney:No. It's so true. I'm just gonna touch on something because you said dysphoria Mhmm. That you don't have to have dysphoria. So what is gender dysphoria?
Cyn Sweeney:Let's just throw that definition out there so people know that now for me, my understanding of gender dysphoria, it is that's it's a diagnosis of the distress that some people feel with their body. So it's a heightened distress. Mhmm. They're not happy, and they, you know, they feel it doesn't fit, and they wanna make a change. Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:And what you're saying is not every trans person feels gender dysphoria.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Right. Because I think I think especially if you look at youth who identify as trans, like, lot of them don't experience a lot of that distress. A lot of it is just like, I identify as this, and they're and they're totally fine with how their body looks, and they're totally fine with their appearance. And that doesn't make them any less trans.
Isaac Cook:Right? Like, I I I think it breaks down to the idea that so many people think to be trans, like, you have to dislike your body. And that's not the case whatsoever. It's just gender dysphoria to me is that, like, you need that disconnect. It's not necessarily a dislike or a hate.
Isaac Cook:It's that disconnect with some form of yourself that you currently identify as that you wanna branch off of. But Right. I don't I don't necessarily think you need. I would say you need gender dysphoria to probably medically transition because that's a diagnosis, and I'm not a doctor.
Cyn Sweeney:I think you're right, especially for younger trans Mhmm. Youth that come out and say they're before puberty Mhmm. You would need a diagnosis of dysphoria to be able to even look at perhaps, you know, going into blockers, which we could talk about in a future episode or the hormone affirming therapy, hormone replacement therapy. But it is interesting because that was the one of the first things, and it used to just really I found it really upsetting was when when our kiddo first came out and and we you know, obviously, there were certain people we needed to explain to because we had to update names and, you know, the pronouns and all that. Their first question would always go to surgery.
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And it would always go, so are they going to have surgery? And I was always so taken aback because I would never ask them, are you going to have you know, is your husband gonna have a vasectomy? Is your you know, like, that's just such a personal, and I don't know. Like, if they
Isaac Cook:decide they want that. Child's genitals. Like Exactly. Like, it's weird.
Cyn Sweeney:It's their decision and that they will make when when they're I can only help them right now, like, with the social stuff because, hey. I've let's face it. I make the hair appointments. I buy the clothing and all of that. So that's up for me to support.
Cyn Sweeney:You know? But I'm sorry. Like, no. My 10 year old is not gonna be going into having any kind of surgery at this point than if they wanted to. There's still, you know, so many barriers and checks and everything along the way to ensure that everything is done Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Safely.
Isaac Cook:So when I when I first came out as trans, I got all those questions like, when are you getting surgery and stuff? And it was a lot of questions from fellow trans people. So I was like yeah. Yeah. And I was like, is that, like, required to be trans?
Isaac Cook:Like, do I have to do these things to be trans? So I think it's really interesting because this was back in 2014, 2015.
Cyn Sweeney:So not that long ago.
Isaac Cook:Not that long ago. No. So
Cyn Sweeney:six years.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. So I started testosterone in 2015. And when I started, when I was talking to the doctor, like, I felt like I needed to be, like, a macho man. Like, I needed to do all these things. Because when I first started on HRT, like hormone replacement therapy, I identified as a trans man.
Isaac Cook:But then after being on testosterone for many years and realizing, no. Like, I don't identify as a man. Like, that's not where I feel myself. Like, I identify as masculine, but not a man because I still felt that uneasiness with that term. So there was a lot of other trans men like, when are gonna get surgery?
Isaac Cook:Like, when are you gonna do this kind of thing? And I'm like, like Pressure? Have to kind of thing. Yeah. So it took me a couple years even after just being on testosterone to kinda backtrack myself and be like, no.
Isaac Cook:I don't identify as that. Like, I'm nonbinary. Like, that's how I identify. And being on testosterone hasn't changed that. Like, it hasn't made me feel like I need to be a man or that I need to, you know, be hyper masculine.
Isaac Cook:And I think and I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize is that, like, to go on testosterone or estrogen or Lupron or anything like that, that doesn't mean your end goal is to become a man or to become a woman or to become, like, completely, like, hormonal or neutral kinda thing. Like, it's just to be more authentically yourself.
Cyn Sweeney:Right. Yeah. That is that's a really that's a really good point. And to add a little more onto that, when when our little person transitioned in the beginning, they almost went really machismo as well. Like, real like, they almost I know I had some family members saying, oh, it's almost like they're putting it on.
Cyn Sweeney:They just seem like they're like, it's it's too much. Like, it's an act. And I was like, well, no. Whoever they are is whoever they are. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:But I think almost it was that sense for them that they had to prove themselves. That's Right? And so in the very beginning, I guess, like, oh, no one's gonna believe me. I really need to show them this is who I am. Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:And then it was with a little bit of time as months went on, they relaxed into themselves, which is still, like, 100% masculine for them, but not as strongly masculine as it was before.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. I think that's so incredibly normal, like, for people who are starting, like like, especially hormones in particular or even just socially transitioning, that you feel the need that, like, you have to, like, appease the binary. So if you're, like if you are a trans man or a trans woman or, like, nonbinary or whatever, have you genderqueer, you have to be that kind of, like, stereotype like, if you Google, like, what does a trans man look like, you need to fill that, like, box. But we don't realize that that's a box that we're also putting ourselves into, and that doesn't need to be the case. You know?
Isaac Cook:There's so many different types of trans men. Like, I'm five foot five. Like, I'm not a stereotypical man height. Like, when like, my partner is six foot, and he always riles me up. He's like, oh, you're so short.
Isaac Cook:I was like, yeah. I'm normal woman height because I'm biologically a woman. Like, you know, testosterone isn't gonna make me grow five inches.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. I think we have to stop kind of defining what we think. You know, you're not a man unless you're six foot plus.
Isaac Cook:There's there's too many things that we we don't realize that we also impose on trans people to fill as trans people. Like, there's an expectation for a trans man. There's an expectation for a trans woman. There's even an expectation for anyone who identifies as non binary, which is Mhmm. So weird.
Isaac Cook:Like, how do you show androgyny or, like, whatever? Like, it's such a mess. But
Cyn Sweeney:So as a statistic, I think some of the statistics I've heard recently is, like, one approximately, like, one in every two hundred and fifty people identify under the trans umbrella. Mhmm. But, you know, likely, the number is probably much higher because we haven't been capturing statistics Yeah. Accurate statistics. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:I do I did hear that Stats Canada is going to start trying to capture more statistics around the trans community starting in 2022.
Isaac Cook:Oh, that's awesome.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Which would be really great because it is hard to argue the supports needed and necessary. Like, I've heard even from local politicians in Halifax that, you know, the numbers aren't there. Their numbers aren't there to to justify educating. And I was like, oh gosh.
Cyn Sweeney:You know, what how many how many do need?
Isaac Cook:The number? Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:What's the number to not erase one person?
Isaac Cook:Well, that's the thing. Right? Like, what what number did you need to start having an inclusive platform and, like, start including individuals of, like, different identities into, know, your curriculum or your, you know, your workplace or whatever. Like like, I I find that kind of conversation so troublesome when people base inclusion off of a number.
Cyn Sweeney:Off of a number.
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Well, one one story that super resonated around that for me was I walked into the Canadian Museum of Immigration
Isaac Cook:Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:And they had this display there of cogs and wheels, and it was a memorial to the Saint Louis in World War two.
Isaac Cook:Okay. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. And this was a ship carrying refugees escaping Nazi Germany. And they first, I believe, arrived in Cuba, and they refused they were refused refuge there and turned away. And then they stopped in The States, and, again, they were refused. They weren't allowed to port there, and they were turned away.
Cyn Sweeney:And the last place they came was Canada. Mhmm. And they were refused here too. And were sent back to Germany, and most perished. They suffered horrible atrocities, but hundreds and hundreds died than in concentration camps.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. And it coined the phrase, like, how how many is too many?
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:How many is and those are those policies that we had back then that turned away and turned a blind blind eye upon people. Mhmm. And I think it just really speaks to our humanity on Yeah. Every person needs to count.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Yeah. Like, diversity efforts. Like, when people try and we were talking about it the other day, but, the tokenism. Like like, you know, you need to be authentically diverse and not, like, an intentional we're gonna include one trans person in the statistics just to fill that bucket role.
Cyn Sweeney:Right? Exactly.
Isaac Cook:It's the same with, like, you know, every other, you know, minority group, like, people of color and stuff like that. Like, we all experience that very similarly that, you know, we the tokenism kind of aspect. And I think that, yeah, that's very tough.
Cyn Sweeney:Mhmm. Yep. Hey, sis folks. So thanks for hanging out with us for this half an hour of our very first podcast episode. It would be really great also if, if you have things that you wanna ask us, if you have questions, you can safely email them, to connect @simplygoodform.com, and we'll be happy to answer any and all questions in upcoming episodes.
Cyn Sweeney:We're gonna be coming out again next week. We can dive a little bit deeper. We've got lots of amazing topics coming up. Hey, Sis. I'm Cynthia.
Isaac Cook:And I'm Isaac. And we'll talk to you soon.
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