S1: E3: Picture Day Blues, what memories are worth keeping?
Hey, Cis! It's a weekly shakedown of the binary walls around us.
Isaac Cook:Breaking it out and building a bridge.
Cyn Sweeney:Checking our biases with empathy and humility and questioning the status quo.
Isaac Cook:It's about building allyship that's intentional and confident.
Cyn Sweeney:So Isaac, how was your weekend?
Isaac Cook:It was good. It's good. It was Thanksgiving. Did you do anything exciting?
Cyn Sweeney:Or You know what? It was really quiet this year with COVID. I've got one of one of my children is off in Guelph at university. So, obviously, they couldn't make it back. No travel.
Cyn Sweeney:And so we were down though at our new cottage, which was really awesome just to be surrounded by nature and peace and quiet and lots of turkey.
Isaac Cook:It was good. Yeah. I went over to visit family in New Brunswick. And as basically, as soon as we got there, there was kind of like a COVID burst going on, and we were visiting my partner's family. And so, originally, they were planning for, like, 15 people to come over, but as soon as that happened, they were like, nope.
Isaac Cook:No one come. But we were able to go because my partner and I were working from home, so we're, like, the least likely to have anything. We don't even go outside anymore. So yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Uh-huh. Yeah. Know. We almost we really have to be reflexive right now on what's happening. We are in the in the bubble.
Isaac Cook:And Well, the the thing is is that we had enough food for 15 people, but there was only four of us. But at end the of the at the end of the weekend, it was all gone. So Uh-huh. Good. Good.
Isaac Cook:Good. Of course it is. Ate enough ate enough food for 15. So it was a it was a good time.
Cyn Sweeney:So speaking of being reflexive, I thought this might be interesting just with the relevance of this week. My youngest has photo day at school. Oh. And so this is my youngest. This is my kiddo who's transgender, and they're currently in grade nine at their at their new school this year.
Cyn Sweeney:And so it's kind of interesting because I was thinking a lot about trans kids and transitioning. And so for me growing up, when we did those class pictures, you remember, like, I always remember my mom dressing me in something really stupid Oh, yeah. On the has to be. And saying, don't take off your glasses. I'm like, always take off my glasses.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. She'd get really angry.
Isaac Cook:We come home with the photos and be like, that's not what I asked. Like She layered me one year
Cyn Sweeney:in, like, a woolly vest and I with this turtleneck underneath, and I hated the vest so much. So I refused to I took it off for the photograph because I I was always quite small. They put me in the front row.
Isaac Cook:Oh, yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And looking back though, because it was just like this white ribbed turtleneck Mhmm. I look back on it now and go, oh, the vest probably would have made it. You know? But but every year, I would layer my clasp photos, one on top of the other in the frame. Yes.
Cyn Sweeney:With the idea of, like, looking back Mhmm. One day, you know, and looking at how goofy we are growing up and Mhmm. And all the changes in us but our classmates and things like that. And I was thinking about my kiddo and how, obviously, their pictures are so different from primary grade one, grade two. They transition in grade five and one school the whole way and just what that must kinda be like for him and knowing, you know, those pictures are out there too.
Cyn Sweeney:So maybe somebody else is keeping those photos stacked behind a frame Yeah. Over the years. And so he's never he's been okay with photos. Like Mhmm. Not like, oh, I want them all destroyed and and put away.
Cyn Sweeney:And so we were able to keep them. And I either way, I thought I'd always keep them and if in case he ever wanted me to pull them
Isaac Cook:out. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:But last year, he went through this really dark time, and there was bullying in school. And this is why he's in a new school this year. And I remember going to bed in the height of it and going up to my room, and on my pillow were all of those class photos, and they had been ripped up. And ripped them up, and he put them on my pillow and left them there for me. And I was thinking about this week as I got the notice from the school saying, oh, it's picture day next week.
Cyn Sweeney:And I thought, oh, it just ended up having a really kinda sad
Isaac Cook:The sour taste to
Cyn Sweeney:it. Yeah. Taste to it that he was ex like, feeling so much hurt, and that's how he was expressing it to me. Mhmm. You know, he just wanted to erase that Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Part of him. You know? Yeah. And I just thought I would talk to you a little bit about it, see what you thought, and, like, what you know, if you if you kept any of your Mhmm. Class photos, or did you just burn them all?
Cyn Sweeney:Or did you
Isaac Cook:Like, it's it's really interesting because I I kind of experience very similar. Like, there are certain points in, like so I came out less more or less informally when I was in when I was 10 years old, so same age.
Cyn Sweeney:Same age and stuff.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Kinda thing. So it was during the same time as puberty. So as, like, puberty progressed, like, I started changing. And I would probably say once I hit, like, 13, 14, I was very much, like, nope.
Isaac Cook:Don't wanna talk about my past. Don't wanna associate with it. Don't wanna think about this and that. I very much was the same. But my mom actually, thankfully, and I'm very thankful that I didn't do what your your son did because now I have the opportunity to go back because she kept all of them, and she did the exact same thing.
Isaac Cook:Like, we have I have two siblings. So she has, like, this big old China cabinet that you walk by and, like, borderline falls over kind of thing. Like, it was old. Mhmm. But she has our photos up there.
Isaac Cook:And since me and my siblings have all graduated, all has our graduation photos on it. But if you pull all the photos out, there's, you know, like, twelve years of photos behind there. Okay. So you can see the kind of the progression. And it's kinda funny whenever I go when I go home.
Isaac Cook:I mean, I live half an hour away from where my parents live right now. Mhmm. Sometimes on holidays or whatever, we're like, oh, let's pull out all the photos and stuff, and you can see, like, the drastic difference. So I think, yeah, for me, at least as an adult looking back, I'm very fortunate, but I absolutely can empathize with how he's feeling right now given the fact that, you know, you're actively, you know, living through these things. And I know photo day can be really, really stressful because it's bringing back all those kind of like repressed memories that you don't wanna think about.
Isaac Cook:I know another issue too that I experienced when I was in high school is with photo day comes also getting your, like, class ID or student IDs. Oh, right. Which also is, like, you have to get a name on there.
Cyn Sweeney:Don't have stressful for
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's a lot of very photos I always find are a pretty touchy topic, especially within, like, the trans community because it really kind of, like, freezes an image in place that you can't change or alter. So Mhmm. If it if it's a photo of a dark time or a time that you don't wanna think about, there's no way for you to get rid of that memory unless you, like, tear it up or get rid of it.
Isaac Cook:Right? Like, it's it's something you can physically see. So I think I think that's why it's harder for trans people Mhmm. To, like, kinda look back then, especially trans kids because
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah.
Isaac Cook:They're going through that every single day. So
Cyn Sweeney:So what I did was I actually I did keep all the shredded pieces. Mhmm. And I came across them this week, and I kinda hide them away wherever I kinda put stuff that I don't know where to put, and it's in kind of a drawer beside my it's a bedside table. And I kinda kept them, and I was kinda looking at them a little bit today. He wasn't there.
Cyn Sweeney:He wasn't around. And not today. Last week. And I just thought, you know, maybe one day I'll tape them back together, and I'll hide them behind his graduating photo or something like that in case he ever wants to look back. Or, you know, time heals a lot of wounds, and maybe there's an opportunity one day where he just wants to take them all and have a big bonfire Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And, like, actually do it properly when he's not in the throes of hurting Yeah. Anymore. So I I did hang on to them. And then this year with COVID, they're not doing class photos anyway because of proximity of people. Plus, be kind of funny seeing everybody with their masks on.
Isaac Cook:You wanna be able to really I mean, you could recognize people, but, like, it'd be very different. Like, smile, everyone. Like, you're not smiling. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:So, anyway, so that's where I my was reflecting on a little bit
Isaac Cook:this week. Yeah. No. I think I think it's probably a good idea to keep them. And then, like, of course, not be like, hey.
Isaac Cook:I still have these kind of thing. Like, not make a big ordeal over it. Just keep him somewhere safe. Because when he gets older, maybe he is interested in Like, exactly what you just said. Maybe he wants to have, like, a big kind of Viking funeral style, like, moment where he wants to light everything on fire and send it off.
Cyn Sweeney:Like Like, cathartic kind of,
Isaac Cook:you know,
Cyn Sweeney:cleansing kind of, and that's it. It's just there if the right moment arises and not meaning to do it in a hurtful way, like, keeping them. But Yeah. I just thought I just want him to be able to get rid of them on his own terms in a, you know, in a
Isaac Cook:In a manner that's, yeah, like, effective. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And maybe he'll be, like, grateful. You know? Yeah. Oh, thanks. I'm glad you saved them, and this is kind of fun to look back.
Isaac Cook:Mhmm. Yeah. But yeah. No. Definitely when I was a kid, like, the moment, I was like, nope.
Isaac Cook:Don't wanna, like, look at these. Don't wanna think about this. But now, like, looking back as an adult, I'm like, holy heck. Why did I used to look like that? Look.
Isaac Cook:Why did I think that was okay? But, like, everyone does that, though. When you're when you're older, you're like, why did my mom so gross. As you're saying. Yeah.
Isaac Cook:Like, why did my mom put me in this shirt kind of thing? Like, those are, you know, nostalgic things that you're gonna think about. I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to, like, toss those memories away just because you're trans or not. Right?
Cyn Sweeney:No. And he does always say to you, like, how come you have so much more of my older sisters? Like, you have all this stuff. They're engraved baby cups and they're baby blankets, and you have all this stuff. Why don't you have it for me?
Cyn Sweeney:And I just say, you know what? You're the third. I was lucky if I finally get dressed in
Isaac Cook:the day and Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Brush my teeth. So, yeah, so that was kind of a little bit of my logic too.
Isaac Cook:I was gonna say, yeah, my mom definitely has some good, like, Tupperware totes, like, probably at least two feet deep, like, just with, I call it shit. Like, it's just like a bunch of, like, random stuff, like, thrown in there.
Cyn Sweeney:Mask sheets. Oh, I know how to write the word a.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Cool. Like, I really don't need this. And I'm what am I gonna do with this as an adult?
Isaac Cook:Be like, oh, cool. Thanks. Like Yeah. You know? Like, it's not something you're gonna put on your fridge as an adult.
Isaac Cook:But, anyways yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Memories are interesting. So it's it's is it international pronoun?
Isaac Cook:Yeah. I think it's international. I don't even think it's just national. So, yeah, international pronoun day today as we're as we're sitting here speaking. October?
Isaac Cook:Yeah. The twenty first. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:So which is great because I was I I was in a Zoom meeting this morning, and I saw some people, when their name came up on the screen, they had put their pronouns in after their name. And mine, for some reason, like, I always do that, but it doesn't automatically do it. I have to go back in and just rename myself every time to put my bracket she slash her. Mhmm. And I got an email this week as well from a parent in the school looking for some support with a driving trip, and they had their pronouns in their email signature.
Cyn Sweeney:And I was like, I emailed them and I said, I love that you you have your pronouns in there. And they said, oh, I just think it's a small way that I can do my part to be inclusive. Mhmm. And I emailed back and said, it's huge. It's not small.
Isaac Cook:No. No. It's ginormous. I think, like, so many people don't realize how important it is to have pronouns, and it's very important to have, like, subtle pronoun usage. Like, very intentional, but, like, not in a way that it's
Cyn Sweeney:Oh, intentional.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Like, it needs to not be, like, a big deal. Like, it shouldn't be, like, you don't have to put your pronouns in, like, big flashy colors or anything like that. Like, it just needs to be very subtle and there and exists that people can use because it's an effective way to communicate with people, and people don't realize that. We use pronouns every single day, and it pronouns aren't just, like, she and her and stuff.
Isaac Cook:You know? When you refer to a dog, that's technically a pronoun because you're referring to something. Right? But, anyways, like, when I you know, in my professional life, I always have my pronouns, like, right beside my name, like, in my tagline. I always have it on my LinkedIn, all things like that, like social media profiles because I think it's it's, you know, there's characters there.
Isaac Cook:Use them. Right? There's no need what for you to not have your pronouns in your bio.
Cyn Sweeney:Exactly. Like, with LinkedIn, then you just put it after your name because there isn't a line for pronouns, but you can just put it right after
Isaac Cook:your Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Your last name in brackets or Yeah. Yeah.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. And I I it's really important that more professionals use it because I find that something that, like, so often we're talking to individuals who have, you know, kind of like different names than what we're used to, you know. We can kinda be like, oh, like, John's a boy's name. It kinda goes back to our previous chat too where it was like, we can't assume what your pronouns are based off your your name. So you really you wanna make sure you're not misgendering someone, whether they be trans or cis or whatever have you.
Isaac Cook:So Mhmm. I think it's yeah. It's an easy way just to make sure people are able to get that information without having to ask the question. Question.
Cyn Sweeney:Right. Or be presumptuous. Yeah. That's a valid point. And I guess it's been a busy month with Thanksgiving and it's International Porn Out Day, but it was also casual coming out day as well.
Cyn Sweeney:And really something that people don't often think about is that for trans people, there isn't necessarily, you know, one coming out moment because, like, with showing ID and things like that, you know, these kind of things, they can be ongoing, and they can happen, you know, in predictable and unpredictable unpredictable times. So
Isaac Cook:Yeah. No. I think I think that's really, really true. Like, for instance, like, when I first came out, it was very much to close friends. And then from there, it kind of became, like, you know, my intimate family and then colleagues and then kind of the universe kind of thing.
Isaac Cook:Like, it it it comes in slow kind of steps. And I think the unintentional coming out part is really important to highlight because we put ourselves in so many instances that we don't even realize that we have to kind of out ourselves. I guess I'll just give a little definition of what outing means because people are like coming out, that just means you're like, I'm gay or like, I'm trans or whatever. But the process of coming out as we're kind of discussing is so much more than that. Coming out is just acknowledging more publicly or privately that you are who you are and you're starting to, you know, live yourself.
Isaac Cook:But there's an idea or not an idea, but there's a concept, I guess, called outing. And to out someone is essentially telling another individual that they are trans, gay, whatever have you without their explicit consent. So for instance, if you if you talk to someone's mother and you're like, oh, you know, Johnny now goes by Susie kind of thing, that would be considered outing because that individual isn't able to kind of consent and say those things on their own behalf. But
Cyn Sweeney:Or like a school. In a school situation, if you have a substitute teacher and they haven't updated, a name within the system and they're doing a roll call and they just look at the at the the PowerSchool or whatever system your school is using. And you often hear of young children being outed that way to the class and which is can be a just extremely traumatic Mhmm. Instance if, you know, the teacher or the substitute, you know, isn't made aware or doesn't kinda catch themself and kind of back off.
Isaac Cook:Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. I know PowerSchool does have a system in place for, like, notes and stuff to be like, this person might say this name on here, but they actually go by this or vice versa that you can actually edit the name on PowerSchool directly. Is that like, this is how I identify.
Isaac Cook:This is what I'm comfortable with. Because sometimes what you identify with that school isn't what you wanna identify at home kind of thing. So, that's something that also many individuals don't take into consideration is the difference between owning yourself in public and private. Some people just want it to be in private space.
Cyn Sweeney:Right. Or if they're not really accepted in their home space, they don't
Isaac Cook:want it translated into it could be like their home very dangerous situation if you do out someone to either family or someone that they know who might not know because that can, you know, cause a whole whirlwind of issues.
Cyn Sweeney:It's true. It's true. And just for full transparency, my child is well aware of the advocacy work that I do, recognizing that, you know, when they're young when when a child is younger and they transition, they don't have a lot of agency over themselves. And so, you know, I've really worked hard to advocate for his rights, his human rights and that, but for other kids his age. So while he's aware, I do really try to protect and not to out him.
Cyn Sweeney:And so, you know, I try to keep that sort of barrier wherever possible, not necessarily saying where we're from or our, you know, full names or names and things like that. But but I wouldn't you know, I definitely know there will be a time where, you know, I'll have to create a bigger barrier between the work I do now and and and him. As, you know, as he gets older, you know, we're always kind of double checking. I'm always checking in to make sure, hey. Are you still okay with the work I'm doing?
Cyn Sweeney:And, you know, where's your comfort level with with that? So but it is hard because if parents don't advocate, you know, and many can't and that's okay. I have a voice. I'm happy to use that. Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:With, you know, being a journalist by background, you know, I feel like I can use that voice for a really good purpose to help for other children as well who are not in a position, you know, to have parents to advocate to kinda give that voice. Because many people we come across too, they have that whole idea that, well, are there really trans kids that young? Mhmm. Do they really even think about gender at that age? You know, thinking about not even, like, three or four, which the answer is yes.
Cyn Sweeney:But even, like, eight or nine or 10, it's like, of course they do. Mhmm. Kids are thinking about gender from the minute they can start communicating and and scaling themselves in the world or, you know, categorizing their place in the world, from all the messages we send to them. So it is really important to me that, you know, we bring gender identity into this conversation.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. No. Absolutely. And if I can backtrack a little bit, you were talking about, like, the difference or this the kind of the struggles between having a professional life and then also a personal life. I resonate with that a lot because I constantly find myself questioning if I should bring up if I'm trans to colleagues or to bosses.
Isaac Cook:And a lot of times, I end up doing it simply be for the instance that they're either talking about topics that I relate to, but a typical man might not. So I find it really tough and I do a lot of, I work within, like, science communication, so I do a lot of public speaking stuff. And I'm very much the kind of person that I try to debunk traditional workforces as much as I possibly can, but I struggle to find that boundary between that to be like, hey. I'm a trans person who's doing this, but at face value, I look like a man, so I look like I'm a part especially a white cis man. I look like white cis man.
Isaac Cook:I look like the traditional workforce force, so it's hard for me to speak out about that while also looking like it. So it's it's an interesting divide that I have to struggle with.
Cyn Sweeney:But you're coming from a very marginalized community Yeah. And yet you appear like you're probably from one of the most privileged Mhmm. Communities that have never had to really struggle or fight Yeah. For your rights and that. And I do wonder about that for my son as well because I think, you know what, you bring so much in your voice and that you have spent part of your life, you know, being treated as a girl and having that experience.
Cyn Sweeney:And you have, you know, you have elements of that you just have such a diverse voice that you can bring to the table that, you know, I hope that the world will be safe for you to feel like you can do that and that you don't have to hide that. And I do feel like people need to acknowledge the struggles you've had to go through to get to where you are. Absolutely. Deserve to have that space at the table and not be dismissed because you appear that you're
Isaac Cook:not Yeah. Yeah. No. I I agree. I agree a 100%.
Isaac Cook:Like, and I think this is a common topic that comes up within the trans community, especially within adults is that the the instance of, like, male privilege within, like, trans men, or trans masculine people. Like, I think, yeah, to, like, some degree, like, we have and we as, like, a transmasc person, like, we have a privilege in society that we look like a man, therefore, we don't like, we can walk around. We're not, like, scared that someone's gonna, like, cat call us or, like, we're not scared of a lot of, like, sexual violence and stuff like that. But at the same time, at the root of it, we've gone through living as a woman or, like, a female. We've gone through those steps.
Isaac Cook:We've dealt with those things. And as a trans person, we're kind of more likely, if anything, to experience that because there's going back to, like, coming out, there's that whole idea that if they if someone finds out that you're actually not cisgender, that's a risk that, you know, not a lot of people are willing to take. So, yeah, I mean, as I guess masculine looking person, yeah, there is privilege there, but not really.
Cyn Sweeney:Mhmm. So if there's time maybe we can finish on, this month. There was PFLAG Canada, which full disclosure, Isaac and I are both volunteers for, is a national nonprofit supporting anyone along their journey around gender identity and sexual orientation. Anyway, they called out the Toronto Star and there were other media outlets that that published this really transphobic cartoon this month. And it's kind of surprising that Mhmm.
Cyn Sweeney:That got through editorial. Like, it got we got through the editors without being checked and actually did get published. And for those that you who did not see it, the comic depicts two people meeting for a first date. They're in a coffee shop, and one of the characters is wearing a blue floral dress and a necklace and also sporting tied up blonde hair, facial and chest hair, and muscular arms. It's a really kinda grotesque Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Rendition that the artist did or if you wanna call them that. And the only piece of dialogue is from this character which reads, sorry, love, l u v, comma, but I did not lie. My personal profile clearly stated that I had been abroad in London in the past two years. Yeah. So it was, like, obviously, like, one of those, date meetups
Isaac Cook:Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:And the idea that the trans person has fooled you and they're deceptive and and, you know, it's just such a bad taste that that was errored, and it's just a blatant act of transphobia
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:That, you know, I you know, that that was published in a in a major newspaper and other media outlets in Canada. Yeah. It's really kinda disgusting.
Isaac Cook:When I, like, first looked at it, I was kind of like, like, what's the punchline? Like and that's and that's my thing. And I was and I was sitting there and I was like, whenever I see because I I will fully admit, like, are some joke queer people write themselves about the queer community, which is completely different than, you know, someone writing something like this, that you can you can have tasteful humor about sexuality and gender. That's absolutely. But when it comes to things like this, like, I'm I I sit there and I wonder, I'm like, what's the punchline?
Isaac Cook:Because I get that there's, like, a play on word, like, abroad.
Cyn Sweeney:Like Yeah. Well, women wanna be known as abroad anyway. Like Yeah.
Isaac Cook:No. Exactly. Like, that's, like, even just, like, transphobic, but also, like, misogynistic. Like, in a sense, like, I'm like, what is is this just, like, a comic to, like, make fun of my, like, marginalized communities? Like, is that Yeah.
Isaac Cook:Like, I don't that's my thing. Like, I I I don't know. Like, you know
Cyn Sweeney:It was published right after coming out day and right after Thanksgiving. And I just thought, oh, come on. Like, did you not have any other content Yeah. To put in that space? Yeah.
Cyn Sweeney:Anyway, hopefully, somebody has been taken off the the cartoonist's desk or Yeah. You know? Hopefully, there have been some kind of repercussions. Because even, you know, it seems like a human, you know, kind of a human right violation there against the the the code of Yeah. Discriminating against someone based on their gender identity.
Cyn Sweeney:Well, to me right there is a red flag.
Isaac Cook:Yeah. Yeah. It's just very distasteful.
Cyn Sweeney:So, you know, if you see something like that, you know, in the media or in a paper that you're reading, I would really recommend, you know, don't hesitate to call it out. Like, send a tweet or or email the editor and say, you know what? This isn't cool and not in this day and age, and it's really harmful. Yeah. And I won't you know, for me, I'd be saying, like, I won't be picking up your paper anytime soon, and I would like to see some kind of retraction or an apology because you're really you know, it's hurting a community of really important people in
Isaac Cook:our country. Yeah. And and to go along with that too, not a lot of people realize that comics and jokes of this kind of manner really perpetuate that idea. And I'm not gonna say the word, but I will spell it out. But, like, the slur t r a p, like, it very much radiates that sort of energy.
Isaac Cook:And that word in particular has been used to discriminate and harm, like, the LGBT community for, like, so long. The idea that trans people, especially, are putting on, you know, like, a dress and, like, it's just something that you can take off at the end of the day or, like, they're it's like a man dressing as a woman to try and, like, prey on men kinda thing. Like, that's not in any shape or form like what it is. So you see things like this. Like, you we really, as a community, need to start calling them out in an effective manner.
Isaac Cook:I always hope that when people do things like this, it's not because they are transphobic. Because I think people do transphobic things and cannot actually be transphobic themselves without because they just don't think about it.
Cyn Sweeney:They don't have information.
Isaac Cook:They're not educated. Yeah. And I and I think education is the biggest piece. There's so many folks out there who just aren't educated on these sorts of topics. But but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the LGBTQ community's job to educate you on what is okay or not to say.
Isaac Cook:Right? Like, talk about things that you know are in good taste and are actually funny. Like, I can name so many comedians who whose comedy relies on kind of self deprecating humor, but it's funny because they're talking about themselves.
Cyn Sweeney:Right.
Isaac Cook:And there's a big difference between that. It's a it's a community that you identify with, like, John Mulaney is probably the first person that comes to the top of my head. He's freaking hilarious. But he talks about things that he personally identifies experience. Exactly.
Isaac Cook:And that's the thing is you need to talk about your own experiences.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Exactly. And let's finish by then throwing to, I think, Sophie LaBelle is one of the most amazing cartoonists. Oh, yeah. Educating to around trans and non binary people.
Cyn Sweeney:She's a trans cartoonist, and writer author out of Quebec. Mhmm. And so she's local Canadian, and I would highly recommend before you ever, you know, look at try to look up what was in the Toronto Star. Hopefully, it's pulled and it's no longer even available online. Check out Sophie LaBelle's stuff.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. Because she's really
Isaac Cook:She's amazing. Myself.
Cyn Sweeney:Yeah. I'll put one of her cartoons on our hey, sis page and with a link to some of her stuff
Isaac Cook:in case
Cyn Sweeney:you're interested in diving a little bit deeper. Awesome. Well, that's all the time we have today, folks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of A SIS.
Isaac Cook:Do you have any questions you wanna ask or wanna join in on the conversation? Email us at connect@simplygoodform.com.
Cyn Sweeney:Thank you all and remember inclusion matters.
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